Just a heads up for anyone thinking about getting into Black Powder. Cabela's has the.44 cal Pietta 1860 Army Revolvers on sale $199.99 + free shipping. Some handy dandy links on tuning Pietta Cap & Ball Revolvers: Fix for Cap Jams: Couple videos on tuning: I mostly fit the bolt to the locking notches on the cylinder by giving it a couple swipes on 600 grit automotive sandpaper. I have 2 Pietta 1860's.
I spent a good bit of time studying before buying the Kirst for my ROAs. The Howell (6 firing pin) converters are adamant about the possibility of fowling up the firing pins by dry-firing, and I also couldn't get over the fact that the more parts- the more possibility for breakage.
1 I won on grunbroker. 1 from Dixie Gunworks which was $245 + shipping: Cabela's has em for less. Lastly I finally put my Pietta 1860 Army Colt on paper last week: 30gr FFFg Schuetzen BP, Hornady.454 ball, Ox-Yoke Wonder Wads, Remington #10 caps - 21ft 5 shot group, 6 O'clock hold. 2 hands standing. Not too shabby.
Click to expand.I think the '58 Remington is probably a more practical gun, due to how you can swap the cylinders in and out so easily (see video at bottom of post ). But I just like the lines of the ol' open-top Colts so very much more. The Remington makes so much more sense for a cartridge conversion cylinder (I want that, in addition to the cap & ball cylinder). But personally I am leaning towards a Dragoon myself.
Even if I have to pull the barrel off every time I need to reload the cartridge conversion. '58 Remington 'Speed Load': On the '60 Colt, you have to turn a screw, tap out a wedge, pop the barrel off using the rammer, and then reverse the process to reassemble.
So it's easier to do a 'New York Reload' than to carry extra loaded cylinders with them.:3. Wow, $200, haven't looked at a cabelas catalogue in awhile. I bought a pair back when they were $150, with 4 extra cylinders. Used them for cas.
Yes, they need tuning to really run. I didn't look at the links or vids, so I couldn't say about what they did.
But, after I was done, I could run them the same as my cartridge guns, and they would go a 2 day match with no cleaning, and minor upkeep. You know, you can fit a colt repro to swap cylinders surprisingly fast, with no tools. Yes, it was still tight enough for reliability and accuracy.
That screw in the barrel over the wedge is to prevent loss, not keep it in. It should not interfere with barrel removal. Sent from my SGP612 using Tapatalk. Not my video but here is 10 second cylinder swap on a Pietta 1860 revolver. Note there is no need to loosen the screw that retains barrel wedge in place. The major problem with swapping cylinders on the open top Colt's is it's really easy to loose the barrel wedge if you are not careful.
I could see an easy / ugly work around - basically tethering the barrel wedge to the barrel. My 1st BP revolver was a Pietta 1858 NMA. I had it and a 45 Colt Kirst Cartrige Conversion Cylinder shipped to my door in Illinois (no FFL no 4473 required). I didn't fire it with Black Powder till about 3 years ago. While the idea of swapping conversion cylinders (Clint Eastwood - Pale Rider) seems like a good one: Edited above youtube link as to not ruin the movie for those that haven't seen it.
It's impractical for 1 major reason - Price of the conversion cylinders. The Taylors R&D cylinders start at $240. I don't know if you can order spare cylinders (minus the back plate). Kirst Conversion cylinders go - $295 to $325 for the complete assembly Spare Kirst cylinders (minus the required back plate) are $140 each: Kirst offers their back plate and 2 cylinders for. I bought Uberti 1873 Hombre in 357mag new off Gunbroker a couple years ago for $250 + shipping and FFL transfer ($285 OTD).
At the time you could buy either 45 Colt or 357mag. They still are available for around $325 to $375. Note spare BP cylinders are pretty cheap - $40 to $60.
Problem there is you are now walking around with a capped cylinder outside of the gun. Seems unsafe to me - One slip, trip, or fall, or bang something (buttstock of a rifle) on the capped cylinder = ouch! Now I think I could find a work around - make a metal cap that covers the top of the cylinder and protects the percussion caps. Comparing the 1860 to the 1858. Here's my opinion owning both. YMMV I find the action of the Pietta Colt's is significantly smoother than the Pietta Remington 1858. With the Pietta Colt, only one hand is needed to cock the hammer.
The Pietta Remington action is stiff and gritty. It takes 2 hands to cock the action (one to hold the gun, off hand thumb to work the hammer). The Pietta Colt's action is apples and oranges smoother than the Pietta Remington.
I played around with tuning my 1858. Finding that the bolt head pops early and caused a nasty drag line on the cylinder. Not sure how to fix that yet. Lots of folks say the sights are better on the 1858. While it's true we are all used to closed frame revolvers, looking at the above group - I can't really say one is significantly better than the other. All that being said - I'm hoping Cabela's puts their Sheriff model Pietta 1858 (short barrel) back on sale. I'd like to get one and cut the recoil shield for my Kirst Conversion Cylinder.
It's a good looking gun, gritty action and all! The down side of shooting BP revolvers is the component price. Below are Cabela's non-sale prices: Hornady.454 Ball - box of 100 - $14.99 Pyrodex loose powder = $19.99 - 1LB (I found a gun shop that carries real black powder for $20 per 1LB). Remington #10 caps - tin of 100 - $7.99 Traditions Powder flask - $20 (Midway USA or Walmart) Traditions Powder Measure - $9 (Midway USA or Walmart) Sum = about $75 to fire your 1st shot (not including hazmat fees if ordering powder and percussion caps online) You can put caps on by hand, load ball over powder, & get a tub of Crisco and lube over the balls (messy). I quickly found that I wanted the following: Ted Cash inline capper - $20 (not needed but sure is handy). Wads - pack of 100 - $9.99 (no mess) Nipple wrench - $20 w/ spare nipples - might find for cheaper elsewhere.
Bore butter - $10 good lube for the arbor (Colt) or cylinder pin (Remington). I'm looking at ways to save $. Could make my own black powder. Could harvest fired projectiles (range scrap) from the local shooting range and cast my own ball.
Can make my own lubed wads. Not having quality time at home - in the short term, I found a member on the firing line who casts ball and bullets. I bought 1000 cast.454 ball and 1000 lubed wads for $189 shipped.
I also bought 1k of Remington #10 caps from Cabela's earlier on. Compare all the above to buying a cheap $160 9mm Hi Point and a $10 box of 9mm ammo. Black Powder is more expensive - but lots of fun. Click to expand.You guys cant have BP Revolvers? I did not know that. I love the 1860. I also love the 1851 and 1861, was never a big fan of the Remington and I don't care if it was faster to reload, I am never going to get into a gun fight with one so who cares.
I like the peace and quiet of loading a Colt cylinder and trying to make every chamber just like the one before. If you go into Cabela's they always have lots in the Bargain cave for about $220. This $199 is a good price and if they were 1861's in.36 cal I would be all over it.
The Remingtons and clones have the grip too close to the trigger guard, hurts my fingers. Usually, these piettas come with the wedge fit too tight, and it won't go in all the way. You want to take some off one side until it goes in by thumb pressure just until the spring hook clears the other side of the barrel. This keeps it in place, but it can be pushed back out by thumb pressure. But, before this, a couple things.
One, the wedge retaining screw on the other side will usually not go down flush against the side. Chambering the hole will fix that, as it's easier than trying to complete the last thread on the screw. Also, you want the barrel able to be easily pulled from the frame. Remove burrs from the shaft and hole. Once done, the wedge will be able to be started from the off side by the thumb, and pulled out by hand. The hook will catch on the screw head, and keep it from getting lost.
Barrel slides off, swap cylinders. As for shooting supplies, I used an inline capper. I cast conicals with the Lee mold, and lubed the grooves with my homemade lube. No wads, no grease.
Just pour powder, seat bullet. Install cylinder and cap.
Also, I beveled the chamber edge. This causes whatever projectiles that are loaded to be swaged into the chamber instead of being shaved to size, making for a tighter fit, and better seal. They are a bit harder to seat. Sent from my SGP612 using Tapatalk. You guys cant have BP Revolvers? I did not know that.
I love the 1860. I also love the 1851 and 1861, was never a big fan of the Remington and I don't care if it was faster to reload, I am never going to get into a gun fight with one so who cares. I like the peace and quiet of loading a Colt cylinder and trying to make every chamber just like the one before. If you go into Cabela's they always have lots in the Bargain cave for about $220. This $199 is a good price and if they were 1861's in.36 cal I would be all over it. Click to expand.I agree with you there.
I actually bought a brass frame short barrel 44 Pietta 1851 Confederali Sheriff's just for the barrel assembly. Cheaper to buy the whole gun than just the barrel. Barrel fits right on my 1860. Of course, now I want to find a steel 1851 44 frame for it.
The grip, barrel and trigger guard will fit right on the Pietta 1860 frame. However if you want to end w/ 2 complete guns, you need to trade triggers. The Pietta 1851 trigger is longer than the 1860 trigger and won't fit in the 1860 trigger guard. Hm, this is interesting. How much of the Pietta / Uberti C&B stuff is interchangeable? I've often thought it would be interesting (from a hunting perspective, at least) to shorten and re-do the forcing cone on a Dragoon so that it could be fitted with a Walker cylinder, thus netting a full charge of 60gn of the Holy Black, or perhaps even Triple-7 if one really wanted a big boom. Then you'd get the Dragoon improvements with the bear-and-deer-killing-sized load of the Walker.
I mean, I guess the Dragoon is only 10gn less than the Walker, but still. One of the things on my bucket list is to show up to a SASS match, watch the slicked-up-squib-load crowd shoot their BB guns for a while, and then go out there and compete with full-house loads in a big ol' C&B Walker or Dragoon, hahaha. And a Dragoon with a Walker cartridge conversion cylinder shooting.45 BPM cartridges? Perfect for that, lol. Hm, this is interesting.
How much of the Pietta / Uberti C&B stuff is interchangeable? I've often thought it would be interesting (from a hunting perspective, at least) to shorten and re-do the forcing cone on a Dragoon so that it could be fitted with a Walker cylinder, thus netting a full charge of 60gn of the Holy Black, or perhaps even Triple-7 if one really wanted a big boom. Then you'd get the Dragoon improvements with the bear-and-deer-killing-sized load of the Walker. I mean, I guess the Dragoon is only 10gn less than the Walker, but still.
One of the things on my bucket list is to show up to a SASS match, watch the slicked-up-squib-load crowd shoot their BB guns for a while, and then go out there and compete with full-house loads in a big ol' C&B Walker or Dragoon, hahaha. And a Dragoon with a Walker cartridge conversion cylinder shooting.45 BPM cartridges? Perfect for that, lol.